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Minutes of the Corporate Reference Group (crg) held on 16th May 2002 at apacs, London

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CRG Minutes: Meeting 16th May 2002 JP

Minutes of the Corporate Reference Group (CRG)

held on 16th May 2002 at APACS, London


IR Ingemar Rudäng Ericsson

S-AA Sir-Anne Aas Norsk Hydro

MJA Mike Adcock APACS

BB Birgitta Björkström Electrolux

RB Robert Bol Philips

JP Jacques Pho Shell

AM Andreas Mall Shell

SL Son Lengoc Shell

PS Petri Salvoaara Outokumpo

NR Nils Ruud Norsk Hydro

GvG Geert Van Gils Johnson & Johnson

AG Anne Gordon Burns



Action versus

Related document/file


Minutes of Previous Meeting - Oslo, Feb 22, 2002

CRG REMADV message need to be published on the CRG-website as soon as the website is available – Action: Ingemar
PAYMUL – The same structured remittance advice (DOC-group) as defined in the REMADV MIG need to be reviewed and discussed by the maintenance group during the meeting D6 meeting in June. This is a formal approval from D6. Once this is done, this will be published as well. – Action: Mike
DIRDEB – It is the local legislation of each country which cause the complexity. It is the intention of the ECBS to propose one harmonized requirements for Europe – this is initiated two years ago and the status is unknown. Shell is currently using a bilaterally Shell-ABNAMRO agreed DIRDEB D99A MIG/TIG to capture different country specific requirement. An updated overview of requirements will be provided by Jacques and the aim is to check/review whether the CRG DIRDEB D96A can be used.

Action: Ingemar
Action: Mike

Action: Jacques

FX payments – Is there any business needs to include spot rate, reference etc. in Edifact PAYMUL???

Conclusion: Not clear whether this is needed NOW – postponed to the next meeting.


Report on D6 Future Group (Robert) from Barcelona

Some CRG members have been attended the Barcelona EWG.meeting.

Robert / Siri-Anne / Mike / Stein reports:

  • IBAN: currently only supported by banks for cross boarder payments – not for domestic payments. So, from corporates perspective, it is NOT wise to implement yet (May 2002). It is recommended to wait until all banks are able to process both IBAN and regular A/C number next together. This is the only way for corporate to migrate to IBAN in phases. Action: Carlo (Swift) will take this issue/concern to ECBS and verify which countries are able to process IBAN for domestic payments - wait for it’s response.

  • Syntax 3 and syntax 4 development and eBXML development. Syntax 4 involves an additional repeating element and is developed mainly for statistic purposes, but almost NO corporates have been implemented yet. So, the question raise is: What position does the corporates need to take from investment point of view in relation to the (eB)XML development??? Moreover, all current enhancement on the Edifact messages from v2001 onwards is based on version 4. However, most of the current mapping tool used is syntax 3 capable OR syntax 4 capable AND not both syntax versions. In other words, will the effort being put in the enhancement of Edifact messages be paid back???

Mike/Ingemar: Future Group should request more investigation and clarification at the D6 plenary – Brussels.

Action: Carlo (via Mike during D6 meeting)

Action: Mike/Ingemar during D6 meeting

  • Value date: Different definition and different date qualifier are currently used about the value date: this needs to be clarify in order to get a standardized definition and common understanding from Swift – Action: Carlo (Swift).

  • FG members are kindly requested to join the D6-plenary in Brussel – June 10, 2002.

Action: Carlo (via Mike during D6 meeting)

Action: All


GEFEG Message Compliance Checker

Ingemar: What is the status???

Action: Ingemar to talk with Micheal Dill


Situation Report on the CRG Web site (Ingemar)

Still some upload problem, therefore NO update of document can be achieved. To be continued.

Action: Ingemar and Hendrik (Stuzza)

Andreas will come up with a proposal to improve the website. Possible to find a sponsor and an independent provider to host this. The CRG website should be representative since it has a marketing purpose as well.

Action: Andreas


Usage of Edifact messages in Asia –Pacific Shell

Shell is currently preparing for roll-out of European Primary bank solution in Asia/Pacific but is facing some challenges. Some questions are raised to investigate the experience from other corporates.
Q: Any CRG members experience in Asia/Pacific like Thailand, Philippines???

Ericsson: payments in Singapore. Other countries are being investigated.

Philips: payments in Singapore, Hong Kong. Implementation splitted in A,B and C country category (A being the easiest countries like Singapore, Hong Kong). Citibank’s solution is to provide address information – name and address - in double characters set (Thais, Chinese).
Q: What about unstructured remittance advice - free text? No needed to take double byte characters into account in the Free text.

Q: What character set need to be used for Greece (ISO xxx??)

No experience. Jacques has investigated this issue and found that UNOF need to be used:

UNOA Level A character sets in 5.1

UNOB Level B character sets in 5.2

UNOC 1SO 8859-1: 1987, Information processing - 8-bit single byte coded graphic character sets - Part 1: Latin alphabet No. 1.

This standard supports the following languages: Danish, Dutch, English, Faroese, Finnish, French, German, Icelandic, Irish, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish.

UNOD ISO 8859-2: 1987, Inforrnation processing - 8-bit single byte coded graphic character sets - Part 2: Latin alphabet No. 2.

This standard supports the following languages: Albanian, Czech, English, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, Serbo- Croatian, Slovak, Slovene.

UNOE ISO 8859-5: 1988, Information processing - 8-bit single byte coded graphic character sets - Part 5: Latin/Cyrillic alphabet.

This standard supports the following languages: Bulgarian, Byelorussian, English, Macedonian, Russian, Serbo-Croatian and Ukrainian.

UNOF ISO 8859-7: 1987, Information processing - 8-bit single byte coded graphic character sets - Part 7: Latin/Greek alphabet.

This standard supports the Greek language.

More info…
Q: Any Lockbox implementation for incoming cheques?

Norsk Hydro: US banks use ANSI X12 format, not in CREMUL format yet. Any development the bank want to charge the development cost to the corporates.

Shell: Citibank will get a proposal specifically for Greece.
Q: Clearing zone for outcoming cheques?

Philips: avoid cheques as much as possible.

Shell: a so-called clearing zone need to be populated.

Action: Jacques

Q: Country specific requirements for Asia-Pacific for PAYMUL.D96A?

Shell: More information will be provided in the next meeting.

Action: Jacques


TWIST presentation – Andreas Mall – Shell

Aim of Twist: Integration of treasury systems with FX trading platform using Swift-XML. CRG members are requested to comment how fare we see a common approach and synergy for a joint effort. See Shell’s presentation.
The Word document includes list of publicised members. Apart from this list, the following organisations have formally agreed to become TWIST member: ABN-AMRO, Royal Bank of Scotland, JPMorgan, Standard Chartered, KPMG, Ernst & Young, Tullett & Tokyo, CrossMar and City Networks. Around 7 others are in the process of reviewing their potential participation or have already provided their commitment but can not be mentioned yet. Further Sara Lee, Nokia and the Association of Corporate Treasurers Singapore have been the first to provide a formal endorsement.
Norsk Hydro: All treasury payments are sent using Edifact message. NH will share the presentation and PAYMUL MIG.

TWIST general April 11.ppt

About TWIST - April 2002.doc


Report on Business Process Modelling Group (Mike)

Mike: 2nd BPM meeting has been EWG Barcelona. The taskforce contains mainly banks and the aim is to model the information flow from corporates to bank. The first model involves a domestic payment (GBP in UK), this will be extended to EUR and cross-boarder payments. This BPM work is done based on UBM methodology which is syntax independently, and together with the Core Component work, new functional syntax dependent message like Edifact, eBXML, MTnnn messages can be created. The challenge is first to get a centralized of repository – moreover after the next D6 Plenary in Brussels.
More input from corporates is much appreciated; this is needed to make sure that all business processes are captured during the modelling. Currently, only Norsk Hydro is involved (Stein).

More work will be presented after the next D6 meeting in Brussel – 19th June.


Business Challenges – Jacques Pho - Shell

Best practices are presented from Shell Primary Bank implementation.

  • BANSTA.D96A – usage of SG6.FTX segment (change into optional segment in stead of Not Used)

  • SG17.DOC-group usage for Shell Finland implementation

  • Shell Belgium Reimbursement payment using domicilie number of the vendors issued by the local Belgium DD-clearing.

CRG Shell best practices.ppt


ABIX Presentation (Alterna)

Alterna Bank Information Exchange - Bas Rebel

Q: What is the position of that CRG is taken in relation to software providers, consultancy companies?? Conclusion???

abix presentation to CRG 16 May 2002.ppt


Next Meeting(s) – Dates and Venues

Shell – The Hague, The Netherlands

Date: Tuesday, 3th September 2002


Any Other Business

A CRG recommendations for connectivity standardized should be proposed on the. First step is to refresh the existing setup of communication by corporates – Action: Stein and Robert create an updated spreadsheet and propose a few possible models.

Q from Ingemar: Extend the CRG group with software vendors? What are the pro’s and con’s??

Q from Robert: report of the Central Bank Reporting initiatives by the ECBS at the next CRG meeting.

CRG compliancy need to be checked for software providers who claims to be CRG compliant. To start with Alterna and Burns.


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